Posted by: Christine Johnson | November 8, 2006

Virginia’s Marriage Amendment

Right now, with 25% in, we have a 56% YES and 44% NO vote.

That means that if we continue to track this way, marriage will be that much safer in Virginia.

Keep storming Heaven with prayers, y’all!

(In other news, with 31% in on the Senate vote, Allen is slightly behind Webb, 49% to 50%. Still VERY close there. Even though I’d be very upset if Webb was elected, the Marriage Amendment was much more important.)

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Responses

  1. Perhaps it would be more compassionate to send prayers for all the millions of children with AIDS contracted because of the Vatican’s policy obstructing contraception in the third world.Perhaps it would be more compassionate to send prayers for all the orphaned children in the world who will be obstructed by prejudiced people who have irrational fears of gays and those children will never have a chance to be adopted into loving caring families. I wonder if you will accept the responsibility to adopt some of these children that will be obstructed from adoption by gay parents because of the crusade against equal rights for gays.I won’t judge you on this – but may God.

  2. Well, first of all, you have no way of knowing whether or not I pray for people with AIDS (especially children). Nor if our family is looking into adopting a child. Or two. Or whatever. Adoption of a child is absolutely on our list of things to do. It’s something we discuss quite seriously. As far as the Vatican’s consistant stance on birth control of all kinds (including condoms), it has nothing to do with AIDS spreading in Africa. Somehow, I doubt that people who are stubbornly refusing to live chaste lives are the same people who suddenly listen to the Church on teachings about contraceptives. That, my friend, is a straw man argument that goes nowhere. In fact, it’s Uganda that has had the most success in curbing the AIDS epidemic, and they are the ones who have worked most closely with the Church in promoting abstinence before marriage and fidelity within it. And with all the other groups in Africa, I seriously doubt that there is a shortage of condoms there.Now, about the equal rights for gays…they have every right to leave property to whomever they wish. They, just as any other non-married people, are allowed to set up legal documents that outline who is responsible for medical decisions and end-of-life decisions. What they should not be able to do is redefine marriage against the will of the rest of the people. To put it bluntly, marriage is about creating families. Procreation. That heterosexual couples refuse to believe this is besides the point. That gays go about acquiring children is also besides the point.What the point really is, is this: despite the fact that Virginia currently has a law defining marriage as between one man and one woman, it has been demonstrated in other states that the will of the people will be thwarted any time it is possible to bring a lawsuit against the state. New Jersey is just the most recent example. What we have done here is protect ourselves from the will of the majority being thrown out by the will of a minority and a few judges.And as far as judging me, though you say otherwise, it sounds like you already have done so. But it doesn’t matter much. My goal is to live by the teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, not by the whims of society and mankind. Like you said, you will not be my final judge. God will, and I pray that I live up to His expectations.

  3. The marriage amendment will hardly protect marriage in Virginia. Gays, by asking for marriage, were encouraging and celebrating a life where two loving committed adults make a commitment to care for each other and love each other for life. Hardly a threat to heterosexual marriage.And to think that this amendment didn’t have a large component of political opportunism is naive. The real threat to marriage, family, and children in this state are divorce, unwed mothers, and one-parent families. And it is unlikely that there will either be community pressure or legislative courage to promote legislation in these areas. It is much easer to hold homosexuals as bogeymen for heterosexual family disintegration.I respect your religious views – in a secular society I would hope you would respect mine.I have attended a gay group that meets at the Catholic Cathedral in Richmond. I have talked with a Catholic priest in Woodlake in Chesterfield County who disagrees with church policy on homosexuality. There does exist an enlightened view on homosexuality within your Church though you may deny it.Spain is a Catholic country and it has extended the right of marriage to gays. The words of Spanish Prime Minister Luis Zapatero, hailing the inclusion of homosexual couples in his country’s marital laws are worth reading.”We are not legislating, honorable members, for people far away and not known by us. We are enlarging the opportunity for happiness to our neighbors, our co-workers, our friends and, our families: at the same time we are making a more decent society, because a decent society is one that does not humiliate its members… Today, the Spanish society answers to a group of people who, during many years have, been humiliated, whose rights have been ignored, whose dignity has been offended, their identity denied, and their liberty oppressed. Today the Spanish society grants them the respect they deserve, recognizes their rights, restores their dignity, affirms their identity, and restores their liberty. It is true that they are only a minority, but their triumph is everyone’s triumph. It is also the triumph of those who oppose this law, even though they do not know this yet: because it is the triumph of Liberty. Their victory makes all of us (even those who oppose the law) better people, it makes our society better. Honorable members, There is no damage to marriage or to the concept of family in allowing two people of the same sex to get married. To the contrary, what happens is this class of Spanish citizens get the potential to organize their lives with the rights and privileges of marriage and family. There is no danger to the institution of marriage, but precisely the opposite: this law enhances and respects marriage.”Your religion has not always had an historically stellar record. The Inquisition was not a perversion of Christian doctrine. The Inquisition was an expression of Christian doctrine.The Earth revolves around the Sun. But it wasn’t always that way. The Sun used to revolve around the Earth. It was like that for hundreds of years, until it was discovered to be otherwise, and even for a few hundred years after that. But, ultimately, after much kicking and screaming, the Earth did, in fact, begin to revolve around the Sun. Christianity was wrong about the solar system. What if it’s wrong about something else, too?Jesus said not one word about homosexuality – but he said volumes about love and grace and caring and non-judgmental behavior.You may insinuate I was judging you – may I insinuate that you are responding in a smug and patronizing manner unrecognizable as being in the spirit of the Jesus I love.

  4. The teachings of the Church are clear, and have not changed at all. Homosexuality is a disorder. Gays are people, though, and we are to love them just as we love anyone else. But those within the Church who dissent from this teaching are not true Catholics – they are Protestants. To be Catholic means to assent to the teachings of the Church, and that means all of them. If you pick and choose which teachings you’ll uphold, then you are no longer Catholic. That is completely up to each person – whether or not to be a part of the Church – because we all have Free Will. But no matter how many call something “right,” it is not right when it is against Natural Law (created by God).Spain has historically been a Catholic country, but is currently run by Marxists – hardly friends of the Church. The Inquisition was led largely by individual states; at the time, heresy (meaning dissent from Church teachings) was a capital crime in many Christian countries. This is not to say that there are no sinners in the Church, or that there has ever been a time that there has not been sinners. All of us are sinners. But the Church’s teachings, the Magisterium as a whole, is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error. This is a central belief of the Church. On matters of faith and morals, the Church can never be wrong. Ever.As far as Jesus’ teachings on homosexuality, I believe that was handled when he said that he hadn’t come to abandon the old Law, but to fulfill it. In other words, the Law of Moses still stood. He came to fulfill it and show how to properly live in that Law. The Old Testament, and hence the Bible, is quite clear on homosexuality – it is inherently wrong, period. When St. Paul chastened the new Church and warned them against fornication, that included both hetero- and homosexual sex. Sure, single families and divorce rates threaten marriage. But so does a homosexual agenda that includes forcing states to recognize homosexual couples as being married. How long after states are forced to allow this would it be before churches were persecuted for refusing to recognize gay “marriage” or perform ceremonies for homosexuals?It’s clear that most people in Virginia do not wish to have homosexual marriage forced upon them as it has been in other states. Again, in a democracy, we are supposed to be allowed to decide things in this manner. Lately, some people seem to think that they can just force things on everyone else, no matter how many people disagree with them.Finally, I’ll say this. God is the author of marriage, not Man. In the Catholic Church it is a Sacrament; it’s not just some contract. Contracts can be made (or broken, I suppose), but Matrimony is more. It’s a covenant, and it’s a bond that cannot be broken. And it’s between a man and a woman. Catholics who don’t understand this are just showing the lack of catechesis they’ve received. And that’s just plain sad.

  5. Thank you for your conversation and I respect your adherence to your faith. But our founders wisely saw the problems of religious faith trumping fact and reason. They were sensitive to the enduring conflicts from the Old World that resulted from conflicts in beliefs. They insured that government would not impose religion on the people and we have a strong tradition of religion not imposing their specific beliefs on the people through the government. There is not an iota of evidence that legalizing same sex marriage would somehow result in the state forcing religions to consecrate same sex marriage within their congregations. That is a red herring.You talk about God’s natural law. Are you unaware that for decades now science and medicine have concluded that homosexuality is a state of being and not a moral choice? To say that homosexuality is a disorder is unfounded in 2006 and inconsistent with the position of the American Psychological Association, The American Medical Association and the World Health Association. How do you presume to make such a statement? God’s gifts are purposeful and for us to not read His word in context with our reason is to deny His intent for this gift.And to take literally every verse of the Old Testament is certainly not what you meant. And I should not have to cite all the examples of Mosaic Law not adhered to in the Catholic Church to make my point. You must be aware of the excesses of the Medici Popes and cannot make but a logical fallacy when you contend that your Church has not had an evolving and changing history – how you contend that it is today perfect when it hasn’t been in the past is within your belief. But it is not disputed among theologians or historians.We live in community, diverse beliefs and characteristics. It would be inappropriate for me to use my beliefs to intrude into your equal and fair treatment under civil law. Your faith is sacrosanct. Your religion and its practices are protected. But unless we as a society can accept the democratic principle of governing by fact and reason, then our society becomes intractable. It becomes like the adherents of Al Qaeda who not only have their belief system but also as part of their belief system, require that it be imposed on everyone.


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